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Am I crazy? (defending pets)

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by moostapha, Aug 19, 2015.

  1. kertap75

    kertap75 EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    I guess you have never watched a cat play with a mouse.
    Look, I love my pets. All these romantic ideas about them are nice but they aren't reality.
     
  2. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    I have a question for all the posters who share this view. You neglected to secure our aggressive dog who is now intent on biting a visitor who is legally on your property......What do you suggest this person do? Get bitten or mauled? What would you do if you were in his situation??????
     
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  3. Chimay

    Chimay Loaded Pockets

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    As I said elsewhere put my dog outside (fenced in back yard) or in a bed room with the door closed before I answer the door. So I wouldn't be in a situation like this.

    The example is the dog is going to make friends and the person views it as a threat, so the dog is not going to harm in this situation. If you have a known aggressive dog... Why? I would never keep a dog that is aggressive or I otherwise could not control. I don't need a leash for my dog, I don't need a fence for my dog, but I have and use both. Legally I am supposed to have those, but I do not need them to keep the dog in the yard or from running away etc. My dog doesn't know any tricks but she knows if I whistle to come and if I yell her name to stop where she is and come to me. Only difference is if I tell her name she's in trouble or about to be if she keeps doing whatever it is that she's doing. I think I've only yelled at her a handful of times in the 6-7 years I've had her. So I'm not sure how to respond, having a known aggressive dog changes things. Again that's not the example that the OP brought to us.

    I've been in situations where dogs have acted aggressive to me. I act aggressive back. Typically not being afraid and confronting the dog stops the dog. If it does not the dog would get kicked. If the dog continued I would continue to retaliate until the dog stopped or was dead. If the dog did manage to bite me then yes I would consider shooting the dog. I've never had to go past a kick or a knee.

    I feel like people are fixating on the revenge notion that I am saying kill the guy who hurts or kills your dog. I'm not saying that, please see my previous post.
     
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  4. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    Exactly. If this would be the case then there would have been no reason for the original post, as said visitor would not have even seen the dog;).
    I have had plenty of experience with aggressive dogs. A truly aggressive dog of a breed meant for protection or fighting such as a Dogo, Pit, Corso, etc. Will not be deterred by a kick or by showing aggression, quite the opposite as it will bring on a fight instinct. I am not saying this to start an argument but I have had to restrain my fair share of them and even with a muzzle and knowing proper restraining technique, you will have your hands full. I tried the aggression trick (I growled at him) on a medium sized dog and it worked, send him running with his tail between his legs. I tried the same trick on a Chihuahua and the little bastard latched on to my leg:D. If it would have been a Corso I would have been in deep caca.
     
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  5. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    This is not the situation I described in the OP and not what we're discussing (well, it seems like a few people really don't understand the difference).

    But, to answer your question ... It would depend on the exact situation. In general, I wouldn't shoot the dog unless I was bleeding or maybe if I was really and truly terrified for some specific reason...such as knowing it was a guard dog, suspecting rabies, or noticing evidence of fighting.

    If I choose not to shoot, I wouldn't worry about doing serious damage. But to me, except out in the wilds of nature, guns are for people and paper, not pets.

    And again, I do what I can to minimize the chance of it happening short of having the visitor wait outside while I round up a pair of cats and a pair of dogs just in case they don't get animals.

    My baby did run up to someone I didn't know yesterday while I was taking her out for her morning poop. It was a lawn care guy. I didn't know he was in my fenced in (but gated) back yard because they are used to working when people aren't home and don't announce themselves. (Yes, this pisses me off. I'm going to have to talk to them AGAIN because even after I'm well enough to work again, a lot of it can/will be from home, and I'm sick of it)

    Thankfully, he likes dogs and didn't appear to be carrying anyway (I was). But, it scared the crap out of me. Honestly, my first thought wasn't for the dog...it was more along the lines of "who the :censored: is this guy in my yard". Fortunately, I realized it quickly.

    (And no, I wouldn't shoot someone just for trespassing)
     
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  6. kertap75

    kertap75 EDC Junkie!!!!!

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    Accidents happen. My daughter opens the door and let's the dogs out into our intended yard sometimes. I've let our plastic coated line get to old and had it snap. I've even had the wind blow open my not quite latched door and my dog went right out. I've opened my door too let my dog out and found a salesman standing there that I wasn't expecting. Things happen
     
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  7. jmbriggs

    jmbriggs Loaded Pockets

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    I have two signs on my front door. One says " In God we trust. All others check your weapons at the door." We stand by that. If somebody refuses to at the very least announce they are carrying a weapon and I find out they are no longer welcome in my home. I am not against others carrying weapons but no body who ever visits me has been in a sd situation and I wouldn't like to find out that their plan is spray and pray while they are in my home. The other sign on my door says "This home is guarded by a USMC combat veteran and a large German Shepherd. The dog can reach the gate in 1 second. Can you?" Both statements are true. The GS is as protective of my wife and sons as I am. My wife and I both know the dog is intolerant of guests so she goes into the bedroom or basement before guests enter. If someone enters ignoring both signs they soon find out my dog is family and I protect my family like I protected my fellow Marines in Iraq. All my Marines made it home alive too.
     
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  8. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    No? If the person perceives the dog as being aggressive then to them it is. If a person runs towards you with a knife in his hand would you think that is being aggressive? Would you shoot that person?
     
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  9. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    Thank you for your service. Would you take off your gun when you visit a friend? This is just me, but I have a hard time being pro gun and then asking others to remove theirs.........doesn't seem right to me.
     
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  10. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Yes, but I wouldn't shoot him if he ran towards me screaming "hi! It's so great to meet you! How are you? What's up?" with a big smile on his face while he happened to be holding a closed pocket knife or a fixed blade in a sheath....which is much closer to the original situation than what you described. Even if the dialog is stupid.

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
     
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  11. Wesmanthetiger

    Wesmanthetiger Loaded Pockets

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    You are still assuming the guest can tell the difference between "Hi" and "Die" in the dog's actions. Just because you know your dog doesn't mean everyone else knows. Maybe the stranger has been attacked by a dog and is skittish. That still would not give you the right to shoot him for drawing on your dog.

    Sent from my VS985 4G using Tapatalk
     
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  12. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    Exactly!!!
     
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  13. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Not relevant.

    To take your metaphor to it's extreme, think open carry anywhere that it is legal.

    If I happened upon someone with a holstered handgun, I would be on guard, but I wouldn't immediately draw and shoot.

    If I happened upon someone with a gun in low ready, I'd probably be screwed and couldn't really describe my exact actions, but I would be doing some combination of fighting and fleeing, preferring the latter.

    To me, they're different situations (orange vs red). To someone ignorant of firearms, they're all the same.

    So, Alice the open carrier runs toward Bob the firearms-ignorant with her gun in a holster on her hip; maybe she recognizes him from the coffee shop and finally worked up her courage took ask him out. It doesn't matter; any legal reason.

    Bob just sees the gun and panics, attacking her before she can get a chance to declare her intentions; this is easy because she has no intention of shooting Bob. Bob is bigger than Alice and easily would win the fight.

    Eve, who is also carrying, witnesses ALL of this...from her point of view, Bob attacked Alice for no reason. Since defending innocent life is legal where this happens, she shoots and kills Bob.

    Good shoot? I think so.

    Make Alice a dog with teeth instead of a gun and the whole thing changes....okay. Fine. That's what people are saying.

    I'll never judge someone harshly for doing exactly what Eve did, whether it's legal or not. And I would judge Bob.

    Change the situation. Say Alice has her gun in low ready instead. Then, I would not judge Bob and I would condemn Eve.

    Fear is absolutely essential for survival, but fear without that last little bit of evidence is not a justification for violence. In the original scenario Eve is not responsible for Bob's ignorance.
     
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  14. Wesmanthetiger

    Wesmanthetiger Loaded Pockets

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    The issue you are having is that you are putting the importance of the animal's life at the same importance as the people's. Your change of the scenario shows it. I'm sorry that not a lot of people share your view, but you asked people if they thought you would be crazy for shooting someone that shot your dog in perceived self defence, and most have agreed that yes you would be crazy. You don't have to agree, but there it is.

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  15. Lollolo

    Lollolo Loaded Pockets

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    In italy is legal to defend some other (animal included) from an immediate aggression or damage if you aren't cause of the same aggression or damage. Defense should be propotionated. Virtually here you can shoot someone if He tries to shoot a dog without reason

    Inviato dal mio SM-G360F utilizzando Tapatalk
     
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  16. Lollolo

    Lollolo Loaded Pockets

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    Inviato dal mio SM-G360F utilizzando Tapatalk
     
  17. moostapha

    moostapha Loaded Pockets

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    Is it legal to carry firearms in Italy? (Just curious)

    Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
     
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  18. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    I'm sorry.... But yes.

    There is a small but not insignificant percentage of the population that believes animal life (yes, including pets) are on the same level as human life. Now please don't misunderstand. Not trying to label you as a wacko animal rights advocate. Not at all. I love animals (except geese, but they're just horrid creatures once you get to work next to them and get to know them). My best friend's old dog was like a big playful puppy. No one got scared when he was in a playful mood. As much as I like him, if my best friend ever shot a person while trying to protect Max, then I'd be visiting him in a correctional facility.

    That's how it is. Animal life is not on the same level as human life. Not even if that so-called human-being is a degenerate piece of scum. (Personally, I believe that distinctions should be made, based on the type of human-being someone is. But I recognize that's even more of a controversial opinion than the one you have.)

    Look at it this way though, in about 2 or 3 generations; that not insignificant percentage of the population will likely get their way. They'll greatly devalue human life and the life of a baby cow will be seen as just as important as the life of a newborn baby boy or girl.
     
  19. 0dBm

    0dBm Loaded Pockets

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    I believe in distance. I defend my pet by keeping ANY form of trouble from coming even remotely close to her. I avoid the opportunity to establish ANY provocation that my pet may invariably cause. If someone were to come after our 5-lb. Maltese (wife's property actually) with the SPECIFIC intent of doing harm to it, my wife WILL pick her up and cradle her in her ams. If the would-be attacker is STILL insistent on doing harm to the tiny K9, that individual, IN MY UNDERSTANDING, would be ALSO attacking my wife. If my wife doesn't empty the entire contents of her 9mm semi-auto magazine on the center mass of the perpetrator, I will fully demonstrate the merits of the Mozambique Drill.
     
  20. Shike

    Shike Loaded Pockets

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    Right. But people converse and people being people tend to understand human body language better. It is very hard for most people to read the animal behavior and body language. Give you an example: Most people think that when a dog wags his tail he is happy........and they would be wrong! It means he is excited. Is he excited because he is happy to see you? Excited because it's chow time? Excited because he is going to hump your leg? Or excited because he is going to take a bite out of that leg? Only he knows that.