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Celox vs Quikclot

Discussion in 'First Aid Station' started by illusion, Aug 25, 2008.

    illusion Loaded Pockets

    As the subject says, witch one to get. Is there anyone in here that has any experience with them or have any good info, so speak up. Looking into putting one of them in my bag, just dont know witch one. :help:

    Celox

    Quikclot

    flash_bang Loaded Pockets

    I am not a doctor or a medic, I have no experience with either product. However, I think both will work fine, as the quikclot has been improved to not cause an exothermic reaction (which results in severe tissue damage as it is a second degree burn in a wound). Make sure you get the updated granular stuff, or I think any ACS (advanced clotting sponge) you get will not cause an exothermic reaction.

    I also think Celox will be fine, too. I don't know if celox has a sponge option, but I would go with that, it would be much easier to apply to a severe wound.

    Overall, I personally would go for the sponge version of either if celox has a sponge, and would go with the cheaper granular one, since they both work fine. Again, make sure you get the updated version of the granular quikclot, and do your own research to make sure that the kind you get doesn't cause an exothermic reaction. (Exothermic means that the reaction heats up the surrounding environment, like a hot pack. Endothermic would be cool down environment, which is like an instant cold pack).

    Cheers, and I hope this helps somewhat,
    Flash
    • Administrator

    scríbhneoir Uber Prepared

    In the Tactical Guns & Gear issue of Guns & Ammo that was on display until March 11, 2008 (I could not find a volume/issue number), an article "If It Bleeds" by Patrick Sweeney discusses the different clotting agents, including Celox, TraumaDEX, QuikClot, and HemCon. It addresses the pros and cons of all of them, as well as how each works.

    illusion Loaded Pockets

    It would have been great if someone found that article!

    VVR41TH Empty Pockets

    Granular and sponge each have advantages and disadvantages. Granular can be poured into penetrating wounds, while sponges have to be packed--something that's not for the untrained and squeamish. However, granular plain blows if the patient is doing anything but lying down flat in a safe area.
    Currently, QuikClot comes in sponge form (ACS, First Responder, and Sport/Sport Silver) and QC-infused gauze for wound packing. Celox, on the other hand, only comes in granular form, but also comes in an alternate "Celox-A" applicator that allows for use in deep penetrating wounds (knife stabs, GSW, you name it).
    As for exothermic reactions, you'd only find that on the old, granular form of QC, which you can still buy from quite a few suppliers. All of the sponge and gauze forms never reach the sorts of temperatures that the old format did--I believe they claim to max at 105 F, but YMMV.
    For comparison of the effectiveness, I can dig up a couple of videos of their pure effectiveness, but long story short, they both work. They'll both stop a major arterial bleed in minutes; however, Celox has proven itself to be slightly more effective (~100% versus ~95%, IIRC). I don't have any experience or in-depth research of the others (i.e. HemCon), but most of them are prohibitively expensive for me.

    jon1996 Loaded Pockets

    only thing you might want to consider is that celox is made from shellfish and alot of people are allergic to shellfish, what if you used it on someone that was and it killed them, then you are looking at a lawsuit, but if you are not allergic to sheefish go for it, theres a good youtube video on celox where they cut a main artery on a pig and make it stop

    SarGeek Empty Pockets

    Celox does not have any of the shell fish allergens...it contains polysaccharide which is a common food additive that does not trigger allergies. Celox-A is great for penetrating trauma as you can get it all the way into the wound. Quickclot ACS can be packed right into the wound to tamponade bleeding directly also if the wound is too large simply packing the wound with quick clot ACS will give clots something to adhere to.
    The hemostatic agents available should be trained with before usage. There is a lot of debate regarding lay people using hemostatics...do so at your own risk...Good Samaritan laws will most likely not cover you should a problem occur.

    Vic303 Loaded Pockets

    My packets of Celox do state on the back that they contain chitosan, from shrimp shells. But they also state that to date there have been no recorded reactions to it. My thinking mimics that of a former paramedic friend of mine--You gotta be ALIVE to worry about shellfish allergies. I can treat for anaphylactic shock pretty easily, once you're not bleeding out on the floor!

    VVR41TH Empty Pockets

    While I've never heard of a single allergic reaction to the chitosan in Celox/Celox-A, you made a good point. Worrying about the allergic reactions it might cause is akin to worrying if you might be giving them a cold through mouth-to-mouth. Sure, it warrants a bit of concern, but they'll die if you do nothing. If you're to the point of needing to use a hemostatic (and you're using it properly), they're buggered if you don't. They're a last resort.

    Craig Celox Empty Pockets

    Hi there. I work for the company that developed Celox.

    The chitosan used in Celox is very highly purified. The FDA have looked at a dossier prepared by independent experts about this chitosan and granted it GRAS status. GRAS means 'generally regarded as safe'. You can look GRAS up on google.

    The chitosan was also tested on 121 human volenteers. 12 had seafood allergies. None showed any reaction.

    Finally Celox has been for sale for 2 years now in the US. We have never had any reports on any adverse reactions. We gets lots of great feedback.

    Its been very throughly tested.............

    Chitosan has a known metabolic pathway in the body. An enzyme lyzosyme converts it to glucosamine. Any small amounts left behind can be absorbed. I am not sure what happenes to small residuals from any of the other products.

    There is also a bag now. The bag is made from a soluble material which dissolves in about 1 minute to leave the Celox where ever you have put it. Its called Celox-D. Try www.celoxmedical.com or www.sammedical.com.

    There's more coming to soon.....

    Craig

    parnass Loaded Pockets

    :welcome: Welcome to EDC Forums, Craig.

    Blackheart Loaded Pockets

    Thanks for the post, Craig, and... :welcome:

    Ian McDevitt Empty Pockets

    Guys, wait for "WoundStat", it works 100% of the time.............For now, use direct pressure and your steps to control bleeding in conjunction with each other. Ultimately, nothing replaces training.

    Rich Loaded Pockets

    I'm just wondering what the application is... from my limited experience, and the war stories of other medics with MUCH more experience than me, I've gathered that direct pressure is the way to go for buddy aid especially in a non-military/non-tactical law enforcement environment. If it's for self aid then I guess a hemostatic agent isn't a bad idea since it might be hard to apply direct pressure to your back or buttocks.

    On an interesting side note, Advanced Provider Prehospital Trauma Life Support doesn't teach elevation, pressure bandages or pressure points anymore, just direct pressure followed by tourniquet application if direct pressure fails to control the bleeding.

    Ian McDevitt Empty Pockets

    There is a common misconception occuring here. The application of the TQ was specifically advised during the "Care Under Fire" stage of TCCC due to the risk of still being engaged and having to still defend oneself. All non-life threatening bleeding should be ignored until the environment becomes more stable. If the individual is not in that particular environment, (under direct fire), the steps to control bleeding are the proper response to extrenal bleeding. Any non-tactical oriented medical class should focus on traditional treatments as they are quite effective.

    Rich Loaded Pockets

    Thanks Ian!

    It's good to know that I'm still following the rules when I elevate an extremity... I would have continued to do so despite the PHTLS weirdness (my last instructor was definitely among the confused).

    Ian McDevitt Empty Pockets

    No problem dude, I'm here to learn and participate. Yes, your steps to control bleeding are most important. The only thing that should disrupt your steps in any way is the tactical environment.