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Comments on the Robinson Crusoe Thread

Discussion in 'Jon's Soap Box' started by JonSidneyB, Jun 19, 2010.

    gern_blanston Loaded Pockets

    Awesome thread. The average guy on the street nowadays seems to have no concept, even a gross simplification like your Robinson Crusoe example, of how the world works. I keep waiting for somebody to tell us all what an evil rat bastard Robinson is for getting interest from poor Friday with his predatory lending :)

    Garland Loaded Pockets


    I have only been a member of this forum for a few days. I stumbled across this thread wandering around, and was delighted with many of Jon's simplifications of very complex systems. This forum continues to amaze me! Keep up the great work, Jon!
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared


    I do have to clean up what is already out there when I can and eventually get to my point but I need to lay some more basics before we get to a little more detailed and bring it into a single idea.

    I might try and fit into this topic why telling the truth even if you are the good guy can be very costly under certain situations. I might also try and fit in how companies that other wise would be good upstanding corporate citizens can be turned into entities that cause damage to not only it's domestic economy but to the global economy while themselves sometimes becoming better off. This is sometimes caused by initiatives that are originally popular with the people.

    Then explain what this has to do with the forum.

    DBCstm Loaded Pockets

    Very interesting read, and it get's one to thinking. As was said earlier about being proud of Britains place in the world, I've been proud of America's place and about eqally Texas. And now it seems that our government, through dastardly meddling in the private sector and not-very-well-thought-out sanctions and tax levies, has driven the vast majority of our business holders out of the country! We, as a people, produce very little anymore. And what with the world market being what it is things are looking pretty bleak for America these days. Sad, isn't it, when you recognize your own greatness is now in the hands of others? This realization has driven me to pay close attention to where I shop, what I buy and more importantly, what economy my money goes to. I don't mind paying $60 for a pen...crazy as it sounds, when that pen is made of the highest quality materials and well thought out and executed. (Can you tell I'm a new owner of a Ti keychain pen found here on the forums? :) :) ) So yeah, thank you Jon for helping me to pay attention to the local economy as well as our national and global affairs.
    Well done!
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared


    I hope I can get the time to finish this. We are in a huge amount of trouble right now and often both sides of the issue make it worse.

    Kilted1 Loaded Pockets

    Thanks, Jon!

    Thanks for the best primer on basic economics that I've ever read. I'm going to give the first few sections to my 11 year old. With the understanding that time is at a premium, I hope you can see your way clear to wrapping this up soon. I think I see where you're going though not really sure how it relates to the forum. Looking forward to the finale.
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared


    When I get caught up I really do want to finish it. It should be clear how it relates to the forum when it is complete.

    Helipilot Loaded Pockets

    Jon, are you familiar with Peter Schiff's "How an Economy Grows and why it Crashes" ? I feel the theme of that book overlaps greatly with your Robinson Crusoe thread. It uses simple analogies to convey sound economics.
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared

    I have not read it. I was figuring out how to explain this as I go along. This is about 25% done, it was all meant to explain somethings that people used to argue about on the forum. I am going to end up saying both side of the argument are wrong but without a reasoned but without background people will can easily say it is not thought out but instead it is very thought out.

    Nater Loaded Pockets

    Thanks for taking the time to write this. I wish someone had told me this stuff 20 years ago. Presently I would probably have to win the lotto to reverse my Friday syndrome. A good personal finance (or a Dave Ramsey course, I think he has great basic advice as well) course should be absolutely mandatory in middle school and in high school. My parents were financially ignorant and very secretive when it came to finances and I believe that has affected me throughout my own dismal financial life. While I will probably die with a job at Walmart, I hope I can pass on a better understanding of how to earn, save, and invest to my kids. Thanks again.

    boyo17 EDC Junkie!!!!!

    I'm not upset,,,, but can't get past the apparently unreal betting odds you assume are available for the football game ,,,,,,,,,, why not presume that the odds are 10,000 : 1 each way and then you can presume to retire to Hawaii and let some other guy worry about parking cars? ,,,,,, or am I missing something??
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared

    This is more economics than finance, they are very different subjects. This is actually going to be more about society as a whole. The problem is trying to figure out how to bring people up the the 400 level in plain English so I can make a point. Economics itself teaches it is not much help on making money but does tell how the actions of masses of people can damage themselves as a group or as a nation.
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared

    There nothing like that presented. It was an abstract to explain an option which in turn would be brought up again to explain various actions that take place on currencies and how arbitrage tries to correct some of this as well leading up to nations acting outside the market place in a manner that manipulates the currency. The reason for this is something brought up on this from from time to time, people just don't realize it.
    • In Omnia Paratus

    neutrontech Loaded Pockets

    Not sure if this exactly fits in or not but I'm big on supporting local economy. I normally end up paying a bit more for gear, but I buy verry little online and spend most of my money in local shops. This also usually means I have to wait for the newest things. I'm dying to get a Cryro, and can get it on Amazon right now, but my local knife dealer is getting them in this fall. But I don't mind waiting if it helps them stay in business.
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared

    If I can ever finish what I am typing up I will show that to fully do that can actually destroy your local economy in the long run, now selectively it can make a difference but that is not what I will be getting at if I can ever finish this.

    It will cover why trade without mercantilism benefits us as a group. An American buying from Germany is not hurting the American economy as a whole if no mercantilism is present because it forces them to buy back from the United States or from someone else that is going to buy from the United States if they ever want to get anything form the dollars they hold.

    The purpose is the address some people calling someone a racist because they don't want other buying from someplace else when it isn't racism, it is concern for how things are at home. On the other side of the coin if we stop trade we are doomed but what is going on right now is not trade.

    I will need to provide a large amount of background to prove this is not made up stuff but is a logical construct to follow the flow. I am going to try and stick to things that Economists both on the right and left agree with. I also want to get rid of a lot of myths about economics. It is not the intent but I will also show why the more freedom I give on the forum the more likely I will be on the street again.

    Sriracha Loaded Pockets

    Seems like Friday got a sub-prime loan.

    boyo17 EDC Junkie!!!!!

    Post edited out',,,,,,,,,, I didn't mean to kill the thread ,,,, sorry
    Last edited by boyo17, Sep 3, 2012

    Kodex Empty Pockets

    Hi All,
    Thanks Jon for the wonderful post I know its not finished yet but you hit great points and show the world economics in bite size bites. Now I have currently moved to the US due to personal reasons and Sold my company and am now looking for work in the US. (This info is put to show I might be a bit biased since I am looking for work) Now being able see first hand how economies like China (Worked there for a few years) grow and grow its easy for countries like the US and the UK show their hate (I know strong word) for Chinese goods.

    Now lets look at this as a mother feeding her child (US feeding China), now instead of food its Business now since China opened its doors for trade the US and other countries have been feeding business to China in hopes, that when they are older
    China will take care of them. Its basic business Western countries invest in china to gain returns. Now sadly the Child on the other hand learned what the mother was doing and started to invest in himself. (Side note while in China they have infrastructure that is just amazing and puts western countries back to the Stone Age.)

    So I know people are smarter than me there is always is but with the comment before he is right to invest in his town, state, country first now I know in the long run it will weaken the economy BUT (very big BUT) it will strengthen his town, state, country. With out investing in yourself you will not go far and that is true to the US.

    When looking back University was a privilege not a right (I know I will get a lot of hate) too many people think “Hey if I get a degree I will earn $$$$” What happened to trade schools things that make the world go round that’s what we need in this country we need those “Blue collar” jobs back we need those call centers we need those jobs to build this country, We need so called “American companies” yes Apple I am looking at you, to invest in your home base. Just like products we see today we should have companies that are so called “American” to have at least 80-90% production in your so-called home country or to be listed at the stock exchange.

    I know this might sound like a rant but from my experience in International Business you need to grow your home before you help others. The US is bleeding due to the amount of credit card debt that is occurring but we still giving to foreign
    countries and trying to implement policies that will get us more in debt.

    So my over all point is this if the US wants to get back on its feet it must focus on building at home and making itself more sustainable. Basic math more money coming in than going out. I know this will never happen but I am glad we are having a discussion on this topic since it dose effect all of us in some way or another.
    • Administrator

    JonSidneyB Uber Prepared

    I plan on covering what your are asking. We are living in an artificial economic environment right now. In the long run to get value out of the Euro's, Dollars, and other currencies they hold they have to send them home. They hold Euro's, it means Europe owes than some cars or something. They hold dollars, it means we owe them a refrigerator or something.

    This is actually when the pain starts. We are used to producing 10 units of production and consuming 15. Later we will be producing 15 units of production and consuming 8. Inflation that cannot be avoided will show its head and enforce this.

    Kodex Empty Pockets

    I just hope it works out soon. Its sad being in our position since we can see the US fall while others cant.
    Hope to read more on your post Jon, its great to see people understand whats happening and been happening for around 12 years.