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dont put keys on your kubotan!

Discussion in 'Personal Security Devices & Self-Defense' started by bladeblabber, Feb 3, 2011.

    bladeblabber Loaded Pockets

    i was outside practicing some simple strikes and locks with my kubotan today, i decided to try a strike test on a piece of thin wood, i stuck the wook with a hammer fist type strike, OUCH!, the keys slapped the back of my hand on impact and it hurt! i never really thought of this before. so now i will be carrying my kubotan without keys. just wanted to let anyone that didnt know!

    PocketWad Loaded Pockets

    Couple of ways around this.

    You could hold the Kubotan so that the keys are at the other end; that is, close to your little finger. When you hammer strike, the keys won't hit your hand. Holding the Kubotan with the keys at the bottom also protects your hand from the key slap when jabbing.

    Alternatively, you could press the key chain against the shaft of the stick with your index finger. That is, you hold the key ring between your middle and index fingers. This way you can jab and hammer without the keys flopping around.

    I always use a pull-apart key chain so I can separate the keys from the stick quickly when I want. Also, a pull-apart key chain allows you to access the stick while driving.

    Hope this helps.

    Tradecraft Banned

    I have always found the kubotan to be an overated weapon. Everytime I see someone carrying a kubotan I ask them if they have ever had training with it. About 98% of the people say no and the remaining 2% had at most a 4 hour "seminar" but they have never trained with it since. It is a good weapon in skilled hands but I think those skilled hands are few are far between. I also think those skilled hands would probably do okay even without a kubotan. That is my kubotan opinion FWIW.

    muskrat72 Loaded Pockets

    I used a Kubaton on a daily basis in a close security prison that I worked for many moons ago. For the most part the keys were never attached and the Kubaton was mostly a pressure point manipulator for me. I'll tell you what though, for those that have doubts about the effectiveness of a Kubaton in the right hands you can make a hard core murderer cry with one. LOL.

    PocketWad Loaded Pockets

    The notion that you must train regularly to defend yourself successfully was developed, I believe, largely by people who want to sell you a dojo membership. If it were true, no elderly woman could ever have fended off a mugger who wanted to steal her handbag.

    All training is theory and speculation until someone wants to hurt you for real. The untrained teenage girl who successfully fights off a rapist knows something about self-defense that cannot be known by the sixty-year-old martial arts master who has never faced a real attacker.

    A Kubotan is like any simple tool in that it gives you a mechanical advantage that you do not have with your bare hand. The most effective self-defense applications of the Kubotan are largely instinctive and can be learned in about five minutes--but there's no money in saying so.

    Tradecraft Banned

    I have to respectfully disagree with your post. I will post comments above in the color blue.

    muskrat72 Loaded Pockets


    :clap:

    MedusaOblongata Loaded Pockets

    If it were that easy to defend, then most attempted muggings would not be successsful. But you're forgetting that most muggers have done this multiple times before; they have some practice, and they may be better at doing their end of it than most potential victims are at their end. The fact is that most elderly women do not successfully fend off muggings.

    Untrained teenage girls aren't self defense experts, and won't defend as well as those who are. Many rapists are rape experts.

    If training is "theory and speculation," what is lack of training?

    It's true that there are people who make their livings off of training others, and who want as many students as possible. It's true that some of those professional trainers are not very good at what they do, and who advertise much and sell :censored:. That has nothing to do with the fact that experts can still train people how to do things better.

    Do you really believe that training won't teach someone to use a kubotan, baseball bat, knife, gun, fists, car, etc., better than they would be able to without training?
    Really, the fact that there continue to be successful victimizations proves that people need more training...

    DBR Loaded Pockets

    1. The Kubotan is the refinement, real or imagined, of the Yawara.

    2. The Kubotan is also the product of the refinement of a method that Tak Kubota created, "Pen Fighting." Yes, defending yourself with a writing instrument.

    3. The Mini-Maglite was designed to be a legal Kubotan Keychain by someone at Maglite, years ago.

    4. For Citizens, the Kubotan's first use should be as a striking implement.

    5. Joint Locking is best kept for law enforcement and corrections personnel and not Citizens in self-defense situations. Methods of removing people from vehicles, etc., using Joint Locking and Pressure Point - Pain Compliance are effective but are not really suited for the Citizen being attacked by a criminal.

    6. Pressure Point - Pain Compliance is also best kept for law enforcement and corrections personnel and not Citizens in self-defense situations. They are incredibly effective for moving recalcitrant people in custody and in handcuffs. In almost every other situation, a person can fight through the pain and still strike you if they are goal oriented attackers.

    7. Kubota suggested "key flail" strikes with a Keychain Kubotan are likely to enrage a violent attacker instead of injuring them to the degree they will cease attacking you. Anything less than ramming the keys into the eye's of an attacker, I would never recommend.

    8. Most of the Kubotan Courses are focused more on the Joint Locking and Pressure Point - Pain Compliance Techniques of the Kubotan because that does require more intensive instruction and does bring in more money to the instructor or school. While I don't think the Yawara/Kubotan is a five minute crash course, I think for most people they should focus on striking and one wrist lock and the shake and brake use of the end of the Kubotan just to help break the hold/grip of an attacker. Back when I was helping to run Selfdefenseforums.Com, we had a video up of a "name" teaching a Kubotan class. There was this little elderly woman with eye-surgery sunglasses on just lightly swishing the keys on a Kubotan onto a heavy bag, it was a joke and no one was correcting her. Her success at the seminar was her check not bouncing.

    9. If you already know, from being in the martial arts, how to execute a hammerfist and the reverse hammerfist, you have the meat and potatoes of your fighting method with ANY Yawara type of device, period. From the Koppo Stick which I popularized to whatever else you can get your hands on that is suitably rigid and strong to take the abuse, the main thing to know is how to execute the hammerfist and reverse hammerfist and to lift weights and be strong.

    10. Going through the movements using small hand weights, very slowly, will also build up the muscles needed for those strikes along with less specific weightlifting. Biceps and Triceps curls are a must. This is paramount over memorizing the execution of every variation of a wrist lock or pain compliance method, for Citizens. If you use it a lot in law enforcement and corrections, then it is probably an equal distribution of time and effort but for Citizens, it is knowing how to strike and being strong.

    11. Just because something causes you pain and makes you pause in training does not necessarily mean that it will make you pause in a self-defense situation where your body is producing adrenaline and natural painkillers. This is why these methods oftentimes don't work against goal-oriented, determined attackers.

    12. There are incredibly nasty methods with any pocketstick, like striking to the side of the jaw line and basically performing a break and rake, trying to take a line of teeth out of a person's skull. So, you also have to be careful with the lowly pocketstick in any configuration as you might face a maiming charge (for tearing their teeth our of their jawbone or blinding them) or even a murder charge if you strike them in the throat, eye, temple or the flat area of the skull directly under the occipital bone and you kill them.
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Gnarly Loaded Pockets

    DBR,

    I read this thread with some trepidation,afraid you were busy and would miss it.
    One of the very first sites I found,when I first learned how to 'go online' was yours,Don.
    And immediately I sat out to learn everything I could about the Yawara stick,and how to use it.
    I thank you.
    Twice in the past several years,it saved me from being robbed...or worse.
    I kept my wallet.Plus one decent knife.And a cheap pistol.
    So I was very glad to see your reply,here.
    With all due respect,when it comes to self-defense matters like this:You are a Master,and we're not worthy.

    ~Gnarly

    DBR Loaded Pockets

    Gnarly,

    I appreciate the kind words. I'm actually more of a Jack of All Trades, Master of None. But I really appreciate the sentiment. About the website, too. I just made the website I could never find back in late 1996 or early 1997 when I first went online. :cool:
    • In Omnia Paratus

    Gnarly Loaded Pockets

    DBR

    Was 1999 when I got dragged,kicking & screaming into The Computer Age....your site has been 'bookmarked' since then.

    And to bladeblabber,who started this thread: Don't be surprised to find...unless you live in a Big City!...that few folks know diddly about Yawara Stick technique...third dojo I tried had one sensei who did!

    DBR Loaded Pockets

    That goes all the way back to a British Server. :cool:

    Then it was drearic.com then the current incarnation.

    There are many mistakes that have been made in Martial Arts as they have drifted away from reality and more into contracts and the business world. It does, except in rare circumstances, corrode and corrupt the validity of whatever is being taught. For example, if someone puts their hand on you and grabs you up by the lapel area or just loose shirt or jacket and they draw back with the other hand... At that moment, the classic Kubotan technique (And Armament Systems and Procedures, "ASP.") is to perform a wrist lock and either go wrist out-turn or in-turn. Placing the Kubotan (or closed ASP Baton) on the ridge of bone with both of your thumbs on the opposite side of the wrist and roll the Kubotan almost like the throttle on a motorcycle. The pain is intense and the only reason it doesn't work with really combative, violent people is, they don't threaten when they jack you up like that, they sling you or grab, hit and sling you into a wall, etc. That 1-step, 2-step stop motion stuff is what allows martial arts to become more of a sales thing for people. You step back to the older way of using these weapons and you pin their hand to your chest with your off hand and then you either fend off the other hand coming in to strike you or you hammer down on top of the arm of the hand you have pinned and then immediately turn the stick parallel with the ground and strike them in the side of the head or the face, etc. THEN you lock the wrist up unless they are down and out and THEN you throw a good solid roundhouse kick in the groin or side of the thigh or knee, THEN you take them down with the wrist lock. At the time of your first two strikes with the stick, that other hand is still a threat and you have to have the wherewithall to deal with that before you incapacitate them.

    Eliminating the strikes and doing the whole series without them only works with people that will let you do it to them.

    AcesQ Loaded Pockets

    I had the same problem too but I always held my kuboton together with my keys when doing striking.

    Grizzlybear Loaded Pockets

    I've try to explain it to students as knocking the wind out the opponent before attempting a hold. You have to take the "fight" out of them first.