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Pepper Spray... last night save my life....

Discussion in 'Personal Security Devices & Self-Defense' started by kowboy, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. kowboy

    kowboy Loaded Pockets

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    Thx dude, No, there isn't noboby who lives in my neighborhood. The funnie fact is than my home is in the middle of Buenos Aires and my university it's in a more dangerous place :p.

    Thanks man, Excellent quote!

    Hand to hand it's a really last option... before that, it's Hand to "glass, bottle, stick, piece of wood, brick, stone, chair, even a grandmom (joke!), or a bazooka" what it's closest in that situation.

    Thx to all for the nice messages!
     
  2. kvw

    kvw Empty Pockets

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    In many places it's unlawful to carry pepper-spray and CS gas, but if you happen to have a bottle of wasp repellent spray on you that could work too on these "insects" described by kowboy.
     
  3. vegassprky
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    vegassprky Loaded Circuits

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    Insect spray or wasp repellant is very bad to use on anything other than insects! May cause blindness or worse! Give you more problems than pepper or cs!
     
  4. ezeqdb

    ezeqdb Loaded Pockets

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    Insects spray doesn't throw as far as pepper gas.. and doesn't have the same instant effect.. I mean, I don't care if a bad guy suffers blindness the next day while he is trying to attack me..

    BTW, I had the same experience as Diego,

    I was walking in a park with my girlfriend at night, and three stoned guys attacked me. As I saw them coming from behind, I was waiting them with de pepper can in my hand.. it was almost a suicide because I have no fighting skills, and I didn't know if they had a weapon.. I pushed my gf away and started throwing pepper gas, while shouting very loud and trying to hit them..
    One of them took my gf's bag (she left it on the floor and was already 100ft away from us), and the three of them ran away.. I just couldn't believe what was happening, and when I realized they have took my gf's bag, I took a knife from my back pocket and started to run for them..

    Luckily they were on bikes and I couldn't reach them, otherwise I would be on jail.. And also luckily I didn't realized I had a knife during the 'fight'..

    Since that situation, I don't edc knives in my pockets (only my Skeletool), and my knife stays in my bag or at home..
     
  5. HOMELAND SECURITY HAM

    HOMELAND SECURITY HAM Loaded Pockets

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    Hi kowboy,

    Definately replace your spray with a new can (I hope you are using the Stream and not fog). Glad it worked for you. Glad you did not have to encounted his friends (if he really had any). Be extra aware of your surrounding's, that thug may frequent your regular path.

    Here is an interesting option that I learned about a short while back. I met two real tough looking ladies that were sitting accross from me in a resturant that were carrying a can of wasp and hornet spray sticking out of their handbags. So of course I made a silly comment about expecting a swarm of killer bees.

    They advised me that they drove tractor trailers for a living (go figuer), and that thay are not allowed to cary firearms at work, so it is common for the drivers to carry wasp and hornet spray. They stated the bull s--- line, is for in case they find any nests when they are checking (pre tripping) their rigs, prior to going on the road.

    They stated that they were told it can cause immediate permanent blindness and literally pickel the eyes of an attacker almost instantly. They stated that if they were attacked it would not matter to them if it was excessive use of force, that if they were attacked they would feel more comfortable having a serious option than something less, espicially against a gun or knife attack. They stated that if it were excessive force, that is what an attacker deserves anyway. They further advised that if they used it in defense they would claim that they did not even know if it would stop an attacker and that it was an only option. They also made it clear that they probably would not stick around to report it but would hope that the news on television would confirm their good luck in delving out an appropiate punishment to the attacker.

    I think that if you can't cary any defense items with out getting in trouble this could be an interesting option.

    Cliff
     
  6. SharpScott

    SharpScott Loaded Pockets

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    Thought I'd throw in my two-pence worth.
    I'm in the UK, where basically ANY spray that is "noxious" or similar is banned (OC/CS/PAVA/CN).

    Also, you can't carry anything that you intend to hurt anyone with (even for defence). Basically it's all reliant on improvised weapons.

    I'm known to carry a 3C Mag-lite with LED drop in in dark hours, smaller flashlight in the day, big bunch of key with a loooong lanyard and a sharpie marker.

    A few years ago now I was walking through a place and happened to get someone grab me from behind. At the time I had a blazer/suit on and a can of deodorant in my pocket. We spray the :censored: stuff on sensitive parts of our skin ever day, so it's pretty safe. I shouted "get off or I'll SPRAY YOU !!!" pretty :censored: loud and combination pushed back and sprayed into his face. He was pretty confused and in the moment would have thought "is he carrying CS?". It gave me a good head start and I was gone. Perfect reason to carry "to freshen up" and I'm going to say pretty safe. I suppose you could cook the dude with a flame-thrower too if you had to (do that at your own risk, they explode like a hand grenade).
     
  7. kwak

    kwak Loaded Pockets

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    Really happy to read of a good outcome, well done for keeping your cool.
    As has already been said, i'd be extra extra cautious for a while if you take the same train daily.

    You'd think that some company would sell pepper spray as something else to get around stupid laws.

    If they called it insect spray, or dog spray surely that would be legal?
    Even better still if they labelled it as some sort of deodorant?

    Often thought about ordering some mace on-line simply because there are packs of wild dogs where i go walking and i've had a few close calls already, i'm not sure on the legality if customs find the package though.
    For sure it's illegal to carry it here, but surely if i kept it home that's not illegal?
     
  8. oronocova

    oronocova Loaded Pockets

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    H.S. Ham > I know of other truck drivers who also carry the Wasp/Hornet spray. Some of them have 20+ ft reach and some of them foam on contact. My uncle for one carries it because his employer doesn't allow them to carry weapons... only blunt tipped knives even. I can't speak to it's effects though I feel it would be at least uncomfortable, not to mention you can kill bees with it.

    Personally if it does cause permanent blindness I would be a little leary of using it against someone with today's legal system.

    To the OP I'm glad you made out OK. I carry OC with me in my car since we aren't supposed to carry a gun at work (I travel between businesses rural and urban.) If nothing else this is a good reminder to test/replace your spray so you can be sure it is working.
     
  9. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Companies can't pull that sort of creative marketing. It's pepper-spray. Everyone knows what it is.

    Also, keep in mind the very reason why pepper-spray is even sold to civilians . . . Stupid laws all across the world that prevent decent citizens from legally using the absolute best option for self-defense. Namely, firearms. No matter how good an alternative is going to be, no one has yet invented anything as effective as firearms in the hands of a trained individual for dealing with a life-threatening attack from a determined two-legged predator.

    Ironically, by making pepper-spray illegal in some parts, civilians turn to things such as wasp spray which is far more powerful. Unlike pepper-spray, wasp spray causes permanent blindness. But folks buy and carry it because it's a legal alternative over pepper-spray.
     
  10. kwak

    kwak Loaded Pockets

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    I enjoy shooting guns down the range and hunting.
    But i've absolutely no interest in buying or using a gun as personal protection.
    42 years on this earth in many a (non combat zone) problem and i've not once wished i had a gun.

    For me personally it's just something to scare off the dogs, shooting them is a bit excessive (unless they bite me)
     
  11. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    That is your business and your choice that you have every right to. No dispute or disagreement there. However, you have that choice. In many parts of the world there are decent human beings who don't even get a choice. For many, there are indeed times they wished they had a gun but didn't have it. For more than a few, it literally turned out to be the last wish they'd ever have.

    If a person chooses not to carry a firearm for self-defense, that's their choice. But it's very different from those who legally cannot do so because a politician rich enough to hire bodyguards doesn't give a crap about those who cannot.
     
  12. kwak

    kwak Loaded Pockets

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    Having lived and worked around firearms pretty much my entire life to be honest i'm extremely happy that the vast majority of people are not allowed firearms.

    Having spent a lot of time over there in the US and having been bought up and living in Europe personally i'm happier with the European laws more than i am the US guns laws (obviously in general as the laws are very different state to state).

    Only thing i disagree with (with regards to UK gun laws (where i'm from)) is the banning of all pistols, sport pistols included as i used to enjoy shooting them at the range.

    The Greek laws are extremely outdated and stupid (where i'm currently living) as i can obtain a shotgun license extremely easily, but i'm not allowed to hunt with a air rifle as hunting with a gun with a Rifled barrel is illegal.

    Lastly on this subject as #1 we're going off topic and #2 no one is going to change any ones mind here.
    I have personal experience of people who carried a firearm, felt the need to use it and then being physically and emotionally unable to pull the trigger.
    In a majority of those cases the thief not only made off with all the money, jewellery etc they also made off with the gun AND were more dangerous during the execution of the robbery as a result.

    So with my experience of human beings i'm extremely happy that the vast vast majority are not allowed to carry firearms :thumbsup:
     
  13. HOMELAND SECURITY HAM

    HOMELAND SECURITY HAM Loaded Pockets

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    I guess I am glad other people have heard of it. I do not know how other people can try to prove intent to use as a weapon espically if you have wasps nests at home. but if there is a way, I would think the same as a gun. I would rather have it and not need it than to need it and not have it
     
  14. Inspector

    Inspector Empty Pockets

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    I am issued CS spray and am required to carry it while on duty, the chances of me ever using it are very slim, I hate the stuff.

    There have been numerous incidents I have attended when the person being sprayed has not been affected by it and the risk of cross contamination is too high. Too many police officers see it as a catch all tool instead of using tac or verbal comms or not allowing a situation to escalate to a level where it needs to be used.

    I have arrested people in the UK for possession of CS before, and our laws treat it the same as possession of a firearm, and I am very glad about that, the majority of people who are caught carrying sprays here are exactly the type who can't be trusted to do so.
     
  15. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Your personal decision is your's. You have no right imposing it on other people. I read your entire post, and honestly; shouldn't have wasted my time. Some folks want the choice to live without fear of being victimized by two-legged predators. Some folks don't blindly pretend that the world is a perfectly safe place and that the predators will never bring misery into their lives.

    How dare you say that you are happy that the vast majority of people are not allowed to defend themselves or their family from those who spend their lives victimizing others. That's actually a pretty sadistitc thing to say when you really think about it. The belief that the average person is too stupid or emotional to use a firearm responsibily is what the rabid anti-gun, anti-self-defense crowd uses to justify what they do. You may have hunting rifles. But you're no different than they are.

    Happy . . . People being victimized because they don't have access to firearms, proper training, and firing ranges where they can practice to accurately hit a dangerous predator threatening them or their children. THAT makes you happy. Seriously, W T F?
     
  16. Monocrom

    Monocrom Loaded Pockets

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    Screw it! From now on I'm just going to interact with the American members on these boards.

    Apparently insanity is perfectly fine if the vast majority of individuals on a large land mass suffer from the same type.

    "Can't be trusted to do so." And that's coming from an LEO. Wow . . . just wow.
     
  17. kwak

    kwak Loaded Pockets

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    :laugh:

    This is why i hate talking firearms with most Americans.
    It's either fanatically for firearms or fanatically against them, there are very few that are able to discuss it in a calm rational manor.

    Your post points that out exactly.

    You have skim read my post and read into it exactly what you wanted it to read rather than digest it in a logical methodical manor.

    1/ I am not "imposing" my personal decision on anyone.
    A member was trying to advise me in a kind and friendly way and rather than be rude and abrupt in my reply, i replied giving my opinion and the reasoning behind my opinion.
    My understanding is that's EXACTLY what a forum is for no?

    2/ I am not "blind" to the ways of the world, i have experienced and seen things that still make my skin crawl 20 years on.
    In those "encounters" i provided a solution to the situation, no firearm was needed or in fact wanted.

    Predictors do exist and to coin a phrase "**** does happen", personally i am confident in my abilities to avoid most types of situations, or if unable to avoid a "situation" to solve them, again without the commission of firearms.
    We live in as good an area as i can afford, i researched every area we were interested in before building my apartments there, i drove around at night, talked to neighbours, stopped off at the local police station etc etc.
    We have a fantastic alarm system that is straight wired to a fantastic private security company if it goes off.
    We have the best locks available
    PIR activated lighting on the perimeter.
    2 fantastic pets (a Doberman and a Rottweiler)
    Lastly i have a few baseball bats strategically placed around the house and a few other "items".

    I'm confident i have secured my belongings and family pretty :censored: well thank you, again i'm confident we're covered for most eventualities.

    Your missing the big picture here though.
    At a complete guess i'd say certainly no more than 3% of Brits own a firearm, i'm confident no more than 10% have ever seen or fired one.

    Yet we do not feel insecure by not carrying a gun, we defend our families and property just fine without one thanks. ;D

    As for the majority of people not carrying firearms.
    :censored: right i prefer it that way, being "victimised" is not an excuse for carrying a gun or taking another persons life.
    I have been on the receiving end of muggings, burglary, fights and oddly enough a kidnapping (sounds worse than it was).

    A firearm was not used in any of those matters, yet in all i defended myself and loved ones, didn't kill anyone AND lived another day.

    I can understand the firearm mindset.
    Having spent a fair bit of time in the US the media is very different to the European media, they seem to sell papers and attract viewers by seeing who can frighten the most people most the time.

    The fact of the matter is though, if you use your common sense, stay out of certain areas at certain times, know how to carry yourself, when to run and when to fight basically be aware you avoid most situations.

    As a rough guide i know fair few LEO's of say the 50 i know well enough to bunk at their house only 2 have discharged their weapon in the line of duty.
    Of the lets 100 Americans i know very well that CCW some for 50 years, not 1 has ever needed to discharge their weapon in a self preservation method.

    So in my personal experience a CCW is there more to comfort the carriers insecurities rather than serve any real purpose.

    You prefer to give in to your insecurities by carrying a firearm.
    Personally i feel secure enough in myself, my preparations and planning and my abilities rather than a firearm.

    Either way i sleep safer in my bed at night knowing hand guns are band in Europe for civilian use :thumbsup:
     
  18. Inspector

    Inspector Empty Pockets

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    To be honest I would be perfectly fine with that I am quite fed up of your ill informed whinging about rights to self defence in the UK and your innane posts along the lines of firearms can solve all your ills.

    You have very little understanding of the cultural differences between my country and yours. The vast majority of people in the UK have very little desire to carry firearms or self defence sprays or the like, and thankfully despite what you might think, they also have very little need to have them about their persons.

    As I said in the post that caused you to throw your toys out of the pram, the vast majority of people who are arrested in possession of CS are exactly the type who cannot be trusted with it, the main reason for their arrest is that they have either set it off in a club and caused a massive panic or they have used it in the commission of a crime. That is a simple fact, if CS spray was more readily available then it would be more readily misused.

    You also seem to forget that we have a huge drinking culture in this country, the like of which you do not experience in the USA and yes I do not trust people, I have met people and I trust very few of them.

    Obviously you must trust everyone in the USA and therefor have no need of any self defence items?
     
  19. Bagnerd

    Bagnerd Loaded Pockets

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    As always, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
    Unfortunately that doesn't make for an interesting internet forum discussion.

    I carry Guns, Knives and sometimes CS Spray.
    I am well trained, well practiced, not insane and rarely drink.

    I have spent time in London and there were several times when I really would have liked to have at least had CS Spray with me.
    To say that you "don't need" self defense tools in the UK is an odd statement. There is plenty of 'need'...
    It simply isn't a LEGAL OPTION.

    In the USA we have no shortage of Hooligans. We just have different names for them.
    In my Handgun Permit classes I saw PLENTY of people in the class that I HOPE DON'T EXERCISE THEIR RIGHTS to carry....
     
  20. jag-engr
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    jag-engr Semper Bufo!
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    Here we go again. This thread started off as a perfectly good situation for discussion, but it degraded back into the pro- / anti-gun debate once again (with the typical accompanying debate on the UK's firearm laws). The OP wasn't talking about guns at all.

    Inspector,

    As you have stated that you are opposed to the use of pepper spray, what do you think of the OP's use of pepper spray? It was used correctly in a self-defense situation to make an escape - probably an ideal use scenario.

    P.S. Please try to answer without mentioning firearms.